By Jeff Probst
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#46462
This is Val's Final Tribal Council Thread.

All other Jurors should remain in their own threads.

Val, you have until Sunday at 12c/1e pm to post your statements/questions to the Final 3. Remember not to take up too much of their time as they have 10 other jurors to get to. Please no listing or questions requiring novels for answers. You should post all of your statements/questions in your opening post in this thread.
 

Jeff Probst

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By Val
#46563
This certainly has been a long time coming for me. I thought I had set myself up rather prettily with enough connections on all sides to keep me safe and allow me to play conservatively at the merge. I have to also give Catalie a shout out because, damn, did I ever need that idol at merge. Where I felt I could rely on not sticking out and playing by numbers, I got outplayed by some quick thinkers and terrible circumstances. I was waiting for the game to come to me, but, unfortunately, it had taken off without me.

There was a point to all the above rambling, of course, aside from me wanting to vent. I have so little to go on as the first juror and I feel like I am so distanced from the narrative after my boot that I think it'll be important for me to glean as much as I can from when I left. I have a vague idea of what transpired, but from each of your ends:

1. What happened and what was your part in it?
2. How did you recover/capitalize from it?

Let's get off of riding me for awhile and into you all individually.

While I can't say I know you from a hole in a wall, Yve, I think your take on my boot could potentially elucidate a lot for me... so please go off! But also, I want you to be straight up with me as if you knew me. What did I do wrong? Lay it on me.

I can't believe I somehow brought it back to me...

BUT...
Russel and Stephanie... you're both lovely people and in a social aspect you two are right there for me. Every fiber of me wants to vote for both of you in that respect.

Russell, do you think you'd be sitting here without all those immunities?

Stephanie, I will be blunt. I can't understand not voting our Russell here. I think with a lot of early OG Munin jurors like me, who were on Munin, you could be risking more votes than you needed to. What's your counterargument?

Ok, I'm done. If I repeated any questions, know I was composing this for some time (yes, really) and you may kindly redirect me to the appropriate response! Be well! Hugs and Smooches! :heart: :heart: :heart:
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Val

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By Russell
#46568
I had gotten in trouble for telling too much to Cass earlier in the day and I had to go in defense mode and save myself from it. I had no idea you were leaving or that you were even getting votes. Honestly, I got myself in a lot trouble in those early rounds in the merge for being loose-lipped. I will say, though, that I had wanted Yve and I to work together and I had to sacrifice her to go with our tribe. You, Catalie, Steph, and Joaq were much more important to me and I sacrificed my own personal interests that round to propel us further. I think that decision is one of the reasons I didn't follow right after, because Joaq and Cat and Tammy all went to back to protect me.

I think there were several times where I could've gone, but I probably didn't need all of them. Cass and Kim had approached me for Final 3 deals at some point but I couldn't know if they actually wanted to take me, and they would often tell Cat they wanted to vote me out. I think I wouldn't have received majority of votes at any point, but my main reason for going for those immunities was because I felt like the prime target for an idol boot because I was taking up a FTC spot that Cass, Cat, or Kim wanted.
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Russell

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By Yve
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#46583
Val wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:34:20 pm 1. What happened and what was your part in it?
SO.

As you know, before Jeff won immunity, everyone was saying, "well, I don't care- Jeff or Yve." Our names because, as circumstance would dictate due to tribe swaps and challenge wins, we were the only ones left in the game who had been on the outside of the most recent vote. I understand it, it makes sense.

Of course, Jeff wins immunity and so his name is taken out of contention. It becomes pretty clear that things are Munin vs Fenrir, but coming up with a second name is harder.

I was being pressed for a name, which is very difficult to do when you're the other name. It all but destroys any connection to another player if you're found out. And really, at that time, what incentive did anyone have for hearing me out and keeping their word?

There were talks at the time about how NuMunin's six would not vote against each other at the merge. As I knew that 3 of my Fenrir numbers were possibly involved and may not feel comfortable spreading a name like that, and my only connection to the other side being Russell and Joaquin, my choice was made for me in NuFenrir's Catalie, Stephanie, or you.

As you've learned by now, Catalie and I knew each other around 2009-2013. Playing in games, co-hosting in games. Chatting for hours into the night, all the fun stuff people do. While I was afraid at first, I was absolutely enamored with her at the time, and would not have voted for her. So that just leaves you and Steph.

In the same vein, I had known Melinda from back in those days too. Her and I talked for hours about the game and life. It was nice. We both promised we wouldn't vote for the other.

People talk about past relationships and their influence on this game. Knowing someone in an open ID game isn't a cheat code- it doesn't always work out well. I went the whole pre-merge not knowing a soul. For this round it was helpful, and then our pasts started to seep through, and there was never going to be a chance of us working together. Even if for a time I was delusional about that happening, and maybe even going to the end with them.

About 10 minutes before tribal council started, Kim told me that it's probably going to be me, but that she's trying her best and needs a name for the vote. Earlier in the day, we had spoken about some of the people in the game, and Kim had mentioned how she had spoken to you the least.

So I said "Val- you said you don't really talk to her." And with that, Kim went around spreading the message. I'm not going to say I put your name out there- for all I know, Kim was just guiding me to say your name by mentioning it earlier. I won't probably know the answer to that until the post-game, but I guess that's why personal perspectives are so interesting.

Of course, 2 minutes before the vote Penner comes up to me and says I need to vote for Russell instead, the first of two times he would do this exact same thing to me in the game (bless him :heart: ). But that's also when whispers were invented, so Penner was able to message Tammy and myself that it had gone back to you.

That is everything I remember.

As far as what you did wrong? The same thing that I did wrong at the merge- some circumstances were out of your control. You weren't an impenetrable-at-final-14 NuMunin. You weren't Russell, Joaquin, or Cat. Nothing you could control. Sometimes people are just unlucky.


Val wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:34:20 pm 2. How did you recover/capitalize from it?

Well, something kind of magical happens when a vote goes very wrong in your favor- people tend to not feel comfortable reliving the same nightmare again. Although my name definitely came up in the early stages of rounds, by the end of each one, two completely different names were now up for elimination. Many rounds would start the same way, "Who is up next?" "Probably Yve." Aside from I suppose was some kind of subliminal fear, knowing this information would be more than enough ammunition to start redirecting votes away from myself. Knowing yourself and your position in the game is power, because it gives you a stepping stone to redirect the narrative and ensure your survival.
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Yve

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By Stephanie
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#46618
Val! :heart: Long time no see. So in terms of what happened with your elimination and what was my part in it, I'm sure you already know this but obviously I voted for Yve and had no involvement whatsoever in your demise and was genuinely blindsided there. I didn't even realize it was the Fenrir plan until you told me yourself just before Tribal Council that you heard you were getting the votes, I believe from Penner? So I really wish you hadn't played your idol when Courtney left too, ugh, or else you would've essentially been tipped off to play it then and there and who knows how differently the ensuing game would've played out and how long you may have stuck around.

Obviously the stray votes from Catalie and Melinda did you in too, with Catalie voting Cassandra and Melinda voting Russell. Then there's Cassandra's extra vote which was decisive, so really it was just a lot of things going wrong and suddenly an 8-6 majority crumbles and one of our own leave, and I think we were all pretty shocked.

In terms of why Fenrir targeted you specifically, I guess Yve probably has more insight there but for whatever reason I guess you were the more agreeable name amongst the six of them. Whether that's for in-game connections, out-of-game connections or a combination of both, again, I can't speak for that but afterwards the Fenrir just assured me that it was never going to be me in danger and despite voting separately we'd still protect each other moving forward. I remember having these conversations with Kim and Tammy especially. I was told the plan happened pretty last minute and given the whisperfest at Tribal Council I believed that to be true.

I went into depth in terms of why we put our votes on Yve in my response to Jeff's thread, in terms of why he was the target from the Munin end those first two rounds of the merge. I do believe had Jeff not won that first immunity he was going to be getting the votes, and then once he won it, then it was promptly switched to Yve as the next alternative. I feel like Jormungand had drama and dissension amongst their five which made it convenient to put focus on them, coupled with OG Munin having an agreement, fear of Cass/Kim/Penner playing the OG Fenrir idol (which we believed would expire that round and one of them had and would play) and Tammy being more of a middle woman, Jeff and Yve were the "easiest compromise" votes while the dust settled and people figure out where they fit into the dynamic.

I never really understood why Catalie and Melinda stray voted rather than stuck to the plan we had in place, but I guess Catalie said something about being spooked with the whispering going on during Tribal Council because she didn't buy it was going to be Yve anymore (although Yve would've left on the re-vote if she stuck to the plan, as I believe Cassandra's extra vote wouldn't be valid on the re-vote). Melinda, really no clue, I guess she and Yve had an out-of-game connection from years back and she didn't want to step over that, but the stray votes certainly put the nail in your coffin and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't peeved about it.

Obviously losing you was a huge blow as you were truly an integral part of my game given all the time and everything we'd been through together, but I recovered and capitalized from your elimination by solidifying my allegiances within the Munin grouping so I was more than just a number to any one person within that alliance of seven, as it obviously wouldn't hold up for too much longer. I did feel like you leaving gave me the opportunity to work between Joaquin/Russell and Cristina/Loveita/Melinda as I felt both those factions wanted to work with me and Catalie before they ever banded together and I worked that to my benefit.

Another way I recovered was I actively appealed myself to the Fenrirs to make myself be someone they could play with and make moves with, because I wanted to avoid a situation where they piled votes on me as they did you and subsequently Russell. I knew the Munin/Fenrir tribal lines would disintegrate quickly and wanted to make sure my game didn't disintegrate with it and I still had a viable path forward. I made it clear I was willing to play my own separate game from Catalie and willing to vote a different way from her if I need be, and I do believe it paid off for me in that sense and showed myself as someone willing to jump across tribal lines rather than set on riding out the Munin majority, like when Loveita and I flipped on Joaquin at nine, and even though the idol play hindered it momentarily, I made the same move at seven, this time with it paying off.

My reasoning for voting out Kim over Russell at four, well there are two components. The first is how I saw the jury makeup and where I'd pull in my support over theirs. It's clear none of us (with the exception of Catalie for Russell, I guess) really have any vote in the bag and I certainly know I'm fighting hard for each and every vote I hope to get, but obviously I was factoring who might be inclined to vote for who in the various final three scenarios.

Ultimately I did feel that Kim had a really good shot at getting votes from the likes of Cassandra, Penner, Jeff and Tammy, and I'd have a better chance at opening up the possibility to receive those votes against Russell than her. I also felt I had closer working and social relationships with the likes of Cristina/Loveita than Russell did, and Melinda was a tossup whether I was up against Kim or Russell. Based on their jury speeches, I don't really think I'd have been more likely to get Catalie/Joaquin's votes if I took Kim over Russell either. I know that coming here with Kim would probably lock up your individual vote more definitively, but I did feel overall in the entire jury of eleven that I'd open up the opportunity for more support going my way by taking Russell over Kim. I obviously very much still hope to earn your vote over both Russell and Yve through my responses here!

The second aspect is the game aspect and arguing how my game is better than Russell's compared to how it's better than Kim's. I already told Kim in her thread why I personally would've voted her to win over Russell and Yve, but I do feel like she played an extremely clean game, was less targeted than any of us and was generally impenetrable by virtue of the social and strategic relationships she cultivated. She was never viewed as a top threat, but never someone who had negative attributes thrown her way either in the way that Russell/Yve did per the survey. A lot of her game style mirrored my own, not necessarily perceived as one of the biggest threats, but connected enough to not be an easy name to throw around, but I felt she had potential to argue it better given, again, she never received a single vote until her elimination at final four while I received a stray vote here and there.

On the contrary, I believe I can argue I outplayed Russell from this angle, because he was actively antagonizing Fenrir at the start of the merge and pushing Fenrir away from him, due to everything that went on between him and Cassandra and also him and Jeff, just to give two examples, which resulted in him nearly leaving over Jeff had Cristina flipped and Tammy voted with Fenrir. He wasn't cultivating social relationships which drew people in to him and kept him safe from a strategic perspective, he was actively pushing them away and making those people target him and relying on Munin to bail him out, which contrasts to Jeff who said he was legit wanting to work with and protect me and me alone from Munin due to our social connection, just to give an example of where my game excelled over Russell's. Ultimately, I stand by my choice as being the best one for my winning chances and hope this provides the insight you were looking for.
 

Stephanie

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